Well there is no posted focus of the discussion at this time so I’m just going to wing it. This story was written in a fairly confusing fashion. It was a little depressing but the broken up language sort of distracted me from any other real aspect of the story. To me it seemed a tad clichéd; I mean egotistical ass cheats on wife? Wow, I am really blown away with the originality. And while the strange style that Paley wrote in may be vaguely intriguing at some points, mostly it was just annoying and confusing. When I finished reading this story I didn’t really feel any different then when I started. I honestly feel that it lacked any real emotional factor. The convoluted writing style just sucked all of the enjoyment out of this story for me. I wish I could provide some valuable comments but I really don’t know what to post about, there is no subject and I disliked the story a bit so without a preset direction this is all I can give.
The convoluted writing style of this story interested me quite a bit. It seems like a more conversational tone would work to decrease the distance between the reader and the narrator, but in this case, I felt much more distant, simply because I was somewhat put off by Paley's choices with the story stylistically.
The story straddled the boundary between summary and scene most of the time, I felt, moving at a decent clip and keeping the reader somewhat distant. The characters didn't seem anchored to me, and I'm not entirely certain why. Perhaps it was because of the style of the writing, but I felt like they could have flitted away at a moment's notice.
Hey now, I don’t know what story you were reading, but it definitely wasn’t a terrible story at all…there was a subject, there was a lot embedded into the story that our class of creative writers can benefit from. Supremeruler…”it lacked any real emotional factor.” Google the story or read it again.
I thought Goodbye and Good Luck was a very beautiful way of looking into the emotional and very real world of Aunt Rosie. She is a vivacious women full of this intense light that draws the reader into the story. Paley’s ability to capture an honest and distinct voice becomes very natural as the story progresses and her sentences are these truthful and lyrically moments that keep building on each other. Upon the first moments of meeting Vlashkin, the Russian Actor who she has a long affair with, he said to her, “My mother was beautiful…She had eyes like stars.” “No, no, goodbye, good luck…I am sincere.” This signature line of goodbye and good luck is probably the most honest line in the entire story. She really means all the things she is saying and we can feel for her character because she has her flaws. She feels that she is overweight and it comes up throughout the story, but it almost empowers the message because we can see her flaws and because she isn’t shameful of herself. I felt like the character of Rosie could speak to anyone and have an honest conversation with them, but honest in the way that she just generally seems to understand the feelings of real people. She captures the feeling of loneliness and it’s not just saying the feeling, but the real feeling, like what something is without relating a word to it.
Although I found her style to be confusing and not easy to just jump into without further analysis, I understand Fio’s comment on the language being distracting from the realness of the stories potential, however I feel like it was Paley’s way of taking language in an era that feels strange to us, but is in retrospect very similar to our own language, the way we speak in 2009. Everything is filled with misinterpreting other people and no one is ever saying what they really mean, but constantly filling the space with the things they don’t mean. It’s extremely true about love and yet for the romance Rosie experienced, she kept a consistently honest quality to her. I think that the language brings a sense of community to the story.
Paley has chosen a very unique writing style, as she is known for in much of her other works. I agree with Fio and I think that the tone of this particular story was meant to push away or keep the reader at a certain distance. Although it is a bit depressing, her style makes a simple story have a very different spin on an “unoriginal” story line (Supremerulerz) –
I don’t think that this story is meant to be a simple read and I think that the style of her langue is in correlation with the complexity of the story line itself – love is shown as a confusing and emotional rollercoaster and the language in the story (although I admit distracting /confusing at times) fits. I agree with Autumn when she said that the romance Rosie experienced had a consistent honest quality to it and the langue bringing a sense of community, just like you have a secret language with your closest friends. It distances other people away while showing the community of those who know it.
I kind of had mixed feeling about this story, I felt that the story was very conversational in the telling of what Aunt Rosie was telling. I felt it had a very ebonic tone with how the voice sounds, I can totally see Aunt Rosie as a southern bell sitting on her front porch on the swing telling her granddaughter this story. I agree with Fio about the distant with the scene and summary, I felt that summary would take some of the story while the in depth look at the scene would sometimes overshadow what else was taking place in the story.
The voices within this story coalesce in the beginning, which initially confused me but as it went on I found it increasingly centered. The tale of a fat girl as discussed from long after gave it a strong setting, because you could feel the time period in the writing. The voice was interesting, in that it was all told in a very conversational style as others have stated. The emotional force behind the story was as the first poster stated, it held a gravity of sadness...but because of the strange style of the voice everything became a bit more difficult to comprehend. This allowed us to enter the world more smoothly, through the world description, however, it also managed to make the emotional weight more difficult to relate to.
This story started off as pulling teeth, and I thought it was somewhat pointless. As the narrator moved ahead, when she began to talk about Vlashkin and herself almost exclusively, it began to take better form. I enjoyed it as it ended. I thought the vernacular was part of the reason it was so tough to understand: it hit you over the head with the idea that the narrator was of a different culture than most readers are ingrained in. It needed some establishment before you were thrown right into the mix.
I thought the form was interesting, told as a story being recited to her niece. This again caused confusion early on, though I eventually picked up on it, rocket scientist that I am. I feel that this could have been a better story if a regular way of telling a story had been used. It's already a unique story, it could stand with a little bit of mundanity in order to help tell a story.
Can we ever read a normal story for this class? Not to say that is isn’t normal, it’s just that, maybe once it would be nice to read a short story that is written in stereotypical form so we could see that it does work and not have to feel like we’re being pigeon holed into writing against the rules? What if I want to follow at least some of them? As for the story, I was confused throughout the beginning. I wasn’t sure who was talking and to whom they were talking to. I actually got up and left about halfway through just so I could try to see if I could digest any of what I read. When I did come back though, I understood it better. I wasn’t too particular of the plot. But this may be because I was first confused by it, but then I also couldn’t get another story out of my mind about a theater romance, so that might have clouded my vision. I really don’t have much else to say about the story. I feel like, even though I read it, I didn’t. And this is especially so after reading the section in the introduction about this piece, and that just proves that I’ve completely missed the point all together.
Like others have commented, I felt that the overly familiar voice of the narrator did much to distance the reader rather than include the reader as part of the journey. It felt very forced and I feel like there may have been more effective ways to get characterization and voice across without this overkill. The formatting of the story as a latter also felt awkward too in that the over-inclusion of "Lillie", the intended audience of the letter, extremely alienated the reader. It was if the author would forget who they were talking to if they didn't repeat it every couple of sentences. All in all, I found the story very interesting, but not effective in its way of telling the story.
Yes the form of this story was rather unique - old Aunt Rose telling her niece Lillie a story. And there was a dialect to it. As Brian said, perhaps it was trying too hard to be unique to the point where it was a disadvantage.
I agree with Fio's point about the story "straddling" summary and scene. This was a bad thing in the sense that it created distance, but it is realistic to someone telling a long story to someone. And, as most people said, the conversational voice actully created more distance. I'm not sure how I feel about this story. It was depressing for the most part, and I felt distanced. It was like I was at my friend's wedding and got stuck listening to her old Aunt Rosie all night. But there were some very good lines and it ended on a happy note. I am glad that I read it.
PS- I apologize for my late post. I forgot about the 'lets post earlier' policy that we had decided on.
I agree with Brian that the vernacular of this story is probably what is putting so many people off. However, agreeing with Autumn, I don't think everyone was looking past this aspect, as they should have been. While the style was a bit off putting early on, I don't think the plot was so convoluted that it prevented the reader from figuring out what was happening, I kept up with the storyline throughout the entirety of the piece. I agree that it was a very conversational, albeit conversational from another time and place.
As for "Supremeruler's" comment on cliches and lack of emotion, I, like Autumn, also wonder if you were reading the same story as us. I felt a deep sense reality from the brutal honesty of Rosie's words and her own poor self-image and personality flaws. I also couldn't help but feel for her as she was repeatedly left out to dry by Vlashkin, yet was unable to completely break off her attachment to him.
Also, just as an end note, I do find it odd that the only stories we read seem to all break conventions that we are being asked to uphold, as per Sarah's comment. I don't find it to be a bad thing necessarily, but I do wonder if there is a specific reason for this, or is just the result of random chance.
Well there is no posted focus of the discussion at this time so I’m just going to wing it. This story was written in a fairly confusing fashion. It was a little depressing but the broken up language sort of distracted me from any other real aspect of the story. To me it seemed a tad clichéd; I mean egotistical ass cheats on wife? Wow, I am really blown away with the originality. And while the strange style that Paley wrote in may be vaguely intriguing at some points, mostly it was just annoying and confusing.
ReplyDeleteWhen I finished reading this story I didn’t really feel any different then when I started. I honestly feel that it lacked any real emotional factor. The convoluted writing style just sucked all of the enjoyment out of this story for me. I wish I could provide some valuable comments but I really don’t know what to post about, there is no subject and I disliked the story a bit so without a preset direction this is all I can give.
The convoluted writing style of this story interested me quite a bit. It seems like a more conversational tone would work to decrease the distance between the reader and the narrator, but in this case, I felt much more distant, simply because I was somewhat put off by Paley's choices with the story stylistically.
ReplyDeleteThe story straddled the boundary between summary and scene most of the time, I felt, moving at a decent clip and keeping the reader somewhat distant. The characters didn't seem anchored to me, and I'm not entirely certain why. Perhaps it was because of the style of the writing, but I felt like they could have flitted away at a moment's notice.
Hey now, I don’t know what story you were reading, but it definitely wasn’t a terrible story at all…there was a subject, there was a lot embedded into the story that our class of creative writers can benefit from. Supremeruler…”it lacked any real emotional factor.” Google the story or read it again.
ReplyDeleteI thought Goodbye and Good Luck was a very beautiful way of looking into the emotional and very real world of Aunt Rosie. She is a vivacious women full of this intense light that draws the reader into the story. Paley’s ability to capture an honest and distinct voice becomes very natural as the story progresses and her sentences are these truthful and lyrically moments that keep building on each other. Upon the first moments of meeting Vlashkin, the Russian Actor who she has a long affair with, he said to her, “My mother was beautiful…She had eyes like stars.” “No, no, goodbye, good luck…I am sincere.” This signature line of goodbye and good luck is probably the most honest line in the entire story. She really means all the things she is saying and we can feel for her character because she has her flaws. She feels that she is overweight and it comes up throughout the story, but it almost empowers the message because we can see her flaws and because she isn’t shameful of herself. I felt like the character of Rosie could speak to anyone and have an honest conversation with them, but honest in the way that she just generally seems to understand the feelings of real people. She captures the feeling of loneliness and it’s not just saying the feeling, but the real feeling, like what something is without relating a word to it.
Although I found her style to be confusing and not easy to just jump into without further analysis, I understand Fio’s comment on the language being distracting from the realness of the stories potential, however I feel like it was Paley’s way of taking language in an era that feels strange to us, but is in retrospect very similar to our own language, the way we speak in 2009. Everything is filled with misinterpreting other people and no one is ever saying what they really mean, but constantly filling the space with the things they don’t mean. It’s extremely true about love and yet for the romance Rosie experienced, she kept a consistently honest quality to her. I think that the language brings a sense of community to the story.
Paley has chosen a very unique writing style, as she is known for in much of her other works. I agree with Fio and I think that the tone of this particular story was meant to push away or keep the reader at a certain distance. Although it is a bit depressing, her style makes a simple story have a very different spin on an “unoriginal” story line (Supremerulerz) –
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that this story is meant to be a simple read and I think that the style of her langue is in correlation with the complexity of the story line itself – love is shown as a confusing and emotional rollercoaster and the language in the story (although I admit distracting /confusing at times) fits. I agree with Autumn when she said that the romance Rosie experienced had a consistent honest quality to it and the langue bringing a sense of community, just like you have a secret language with your closest friends. It distances other people away while showing the community of those who know it.
I kind of had mixed feeling about this story, I felt that the story was very conversational in the telling of what Aunt Rosie was telling. I felt it had a very ebonic tone with how the voice sounds, I can totally see Aunt Rosie as a southern bell sitting on her front porch on the swing telling her granddaughter this story.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fio about the distant with the scene and summary, I felt that summary would take some of the story while the in depth look at the scene would sometimes overshadow what else was taking place in the story.
The voices within this story coalesce in the beginning, which initially confused me but as it went on I found it increasingly centered. The tale of a fat girl as discussed from long after gave it a strong setting, because you could feel the time period in the writing. The voice was interesting, in that it was all told in a very conversational style as others have stated.
ReplyDeleteThe emotional force behind the story was as the first poster stated, it held a gravity of sadness...but because of the strange style of the voice everything became a bit more difficult to comprehend. This allowed us to enter the world more smoothly, through the world description, however, it also managed to make the emotional weight more difficult to relate to.
This story started off as pulling teeth, and I thought it was somewhat pointless. As the narrator moved ahead, when she began to talk about Vlashkin and herself almost exclusively, it began to take better form. I enjoyed it as it ended. I thought the vernacular was part of the reason it was so tough to understand: it hit you over the head with the idea that the narrator was of a different culture than most readers are ingrained in. It needed some establishment before you were thrown right into the mix.
ReplyDeleteI thought the form was interesting, told as a story being recited to her niece. This again caused confusion early on, though I eventually picked up on it, rocket scientist that I am. I feel that this could have been a better story if a regular way of telling a story had been used. It's already a unique story, it could stand with a little bit of mundanity in order to help tell a story.
Can we ever read a normal story for this class? Not to say that is isn’t normal, it’s just that, maybe once it would be nice to read a short story that is written in stereotypical form so we could see that it does work and not have to feel like we’re being pigeon holed into writing against the rules? What if I want to follow at least some of them?
ReplyDeleteAs for the story, I was confused throughout the beginning. I wasn’t sure who was talking and to whom they were talking to. I actually got up and left about halfway through just so I could try to see if I could digest any of what I read. When I did come back though, I understood it better.
I wasn’t too particular of the plot. But this may be because I was first confused by it, but then I also couldn’t get another story out of my mind about a theater romance, so that might have clouded my vision. I really don’t have much else to say about the story. I feel like, even though I read it, I didn’t. And this is especially so after reading the section in the introduction about this piece, and that just proves that I’ve completely missed the point all together.
Like others have commented, I felt that the overly familiar voice of the narrator did much to distance the reader rather than include the reader as part of the journey. It felt very forced and I feel like there may have been more effective ways to get characterization and voice across without this overkill. The formatting of the story as a latter also felt awkward too in that the over-inclusion of "Lillie", the intended audience of the letter, extremely alienated the reader. It was if the author would forget who they were talking to if they didn't repeat it every couple of sentences. All in all, I found the story very interesting, but not effective in its way of telling the story.
ReplyDeleteYes the form of this story was rather unique - old Aunt Rose telling her niece Lillie a story. And there was a dialect to it. As Brian said, perhaps it was trying too hard to be unique to the point where it was a disadvantage.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fio's point about the story "straddling" summary and scene. This was a bad thing in the sense that it created distance, but it is realistic to someone telling a long story to someone. And, as most people said, the conversational voice actully created more distance. I'm not sure how I feel about this story. It was depressing for the most part, and I felt distanced. It was like I was at my friend's wedding and got stuck listening to her old Aunt Rosie all night. But there were some very good lines and it ended on a happy note. I am glad that I read it.
PS- I apologize for my late post. I forgot about the 'lets post earlier' policy that we had decided on.
I agree with Brian that the vernacular of this story is probably what is putting so many people off. However, agreeing with Autumn, I don't think everyone was looking past this aspect, as they should have been. While the style was a bit off putting early on, I don't think the plot was so convoluted that it prevented the reader from figuring out what was happening, I kept up with the storyline throughout the entirety of the piece. I agree that it was a very conversational, albeit conversational from another time and place.
ReplyDeleteAs for "Supremeruler's" comment on cliches and lack of emotion, I, like Autumn, also wonder if you were reading the same story as us. I felt a deep sense reality from the brutal honesty of Rosie's words and her own poor self-image and personality flaws. I also couldn't help but feel for her as she was repeatedly left out to dry by Vlashkin, yet was unable to completely break off her attachment to him.
Also, just as an end note, I do find it odd that the only stories we read seem to all break conventions that we are being asked to uphold, as per Sarah's comment. I don't find it to be a bad thing necessarily, but I do wonder if there is a specific reason for this, or is just the result of random chance.