The passage we read for Burroway dealt with summary and how information is summarized within a story. "Wilderness Tips" seems like a story where near everything is summarization and the most important details are the ones that only we, the audience, know. A big theme in this story is what is not said, what lies under the surface waiting to be said. We get such a thorough impression of George, Roland, and Portia, and at the same time we are not overwhelmed with information, because of Atwood's control over her summary. It seems like she fits supporting details in at every opportunity, but they flow within the confines of the story.
The characters all seem to have some sort of flaw that makes them hard to like. George is a womanizer who only cares about himself, and his wife Portia is a ingenuous pushover. Roland is self-deprecating and resentful, and Pamela is a twittering old maid, while Prue is manipulative and caustic. And yet, something tells me that if I walked in on their dinner party having met none of them before, and never to see them again afterwards, they'd seem like normal, well-adjusted people. It's only through Atwood's summaries, what is left unsaid, that we are able to truly know them.
The time aspect of this story jumps back and forth between decades; it starts out talking about the forties and bandannas. It then jumps into the fifties and how it was a party time. With George whose real name isn’t George, talks about Prue not even being born, so it is apparent that he has lost track of time throughout the story. It tells different parts about each decade.
Along with that I feel that Atwood is leaving out a lot of details and is being very vague with a lot of the story. I feel that way because of the certain details that are left out in the story.
In Response to Andrews comment I agree with him about the vagueness and leaving out details throughout the story. I agree that there is alot unsaid and unshown that leaves the reader thinking about what the hell happened
I think that the concept of time is very important in this story. George has an infinite amount of respect for the ways of his great-grandfather. He adheres as tightly as possible to the traditions of native Canadian culture and has built what he considers to be a tradition of existing in the wilderness. However, at certain points in the story it is suggested that not even the great-grandfather, who designed his cabin to imitate that of a colonial wilderness cabin, has completely adhered to those ideals. George then, who doesn't even make the distinction between living in the cabin and wilderness living, is even further removed from the times he is so desperately trying to hang on to. What he assumes to be the traditions of native and colonial Canadians are actually traditions that are warped by the time period he himself lives in.
In response to Christian's comment, it is indeed interesting how Atwood has her characters looking back to past times. She constantly references traditions or objects such as the forties bandana as things that people take from past times, but also shows them being further and further lost and forgotten.
The primary makeup of time in “Wilderness Tips” by Margaret Atwood is the consistency of the characters always looking back at their lives. This constant look back repeatedly reveals something new about the characters. As it is discussed in Burroway on pages 222-223 ones memory tells the story of ones life and it is a great natural story teller, along with the ideas of scene and summary intermixes for the creation of fictional place for the story. Time in “Wilderness Tips” is often best revealed through the characters, which in turn enhances our ability to see the characters and the scene with increased meaning. Overall the story really struck me with great resemblance into the lives of ourselves and the people around us. My favorite lines was, “George realizes that a good deal of what she says is not directed not him or to any other listener but simply to herself,” and this moment really reveals something about George being able to interpret Pamela and also the character of Pamela who is complicated on many different levels (35). I also feel like there was a lot of self-reflection in the story and that the characters were dissected to the reader and look into their entire makeup, which turns out to not be a lot different from other people we know if our lives.
Throughout the story Wwilderness Tips" the reader is submerged into a world in which we seem to know more about what is going on than the characters seem to. The element of time jumps around a lot and we, as the reader, are exposed to many different time periods in which George is taking part in different activities which reflect that decade.
It is interesting to me to see how certain objects are used to further illustrate that time period. For emample, the bandana is a good use of object to show the 40's and as quoted in Burroway; concrete details are effective ways of enganging the reader, which is why the bandana is so memorable.
In response to Andrew Pryors second paragraph I really agree with his statement, "It's only through Atwood's summaries, what is left unsaid, that we are able to truly know them." These people are a lot like us, and I felt as though I could identify with these characters. I feel like they are a reflection of us and they traits that are left unsaid by most people and yet Atwood goes to that place and reveals a lot to the reader.
In response to what Autumn posted, I agree that a major element in the story has a lot to do with self-discovery through past experience. Memories are an effective way of revealing more about that character on an outsider looking in kind of way. I think the component of memories is consistent with Atwood's tactic of intentionally making some parts vague, as is a memory as time passes.
Time seems to be incredibly significant to this story's plot, and well, entire structure. We are led through decades and moments of time sporadically, whether through direct tales or just mere references to times long ago. One such reference, the Rosie the Riveter one, is suddenly thrust into a 50s reference from when 'George' grew up in garbage heaps. All of these muddled memories combined seem to unearth revelations only realized through exploring the past.
I found that by blending different time references into one solid block of setting/time, proved to be very interesting and managed to bring the characters' different 'selves' all into one. By referencing the hardships and moments shared throughout different times by the different characters we were able to flesh out each character through experiences riddled with juicy information.
I like Amy's reference to the Rosie bandana, it's perfectly true that it illustrates the significance of time period objects to add depth to a story..by including a red bandana and merely referencing its significance, impressive lines can be drawn in characterization of characters as well as time.
I love trama's comment regarding George's inability to separate traditions of old with traditions of new...the idea that Canadian traditions and native traditions are collapsing in on each other, and that George isn't sure of how to find his own place within the spectrum of time only further raises questions of time and one's own place within it.
I agree with Scott's comment about the melding of different time periods and yeas. It really added to the theme of the story and the descriptions of the characters.
I found it interesting how an entire short story was able to cover time in a way that one could get a sense of a character's entire life, and not just who they were at the moment. Through summarization and bits of inconsistency, as in being all ages at once, reading this story is like watching their lives as an entire train, instead of in views of little box cars. One passage that particularly showed this for me was on pg. 42 when Portia is in the water, thinking about herself, "She is herself at fifteen, herself at twelve, herself at nine...safe to be this age, to know... that nothing will ever change." Atwood conveys the idea of time was irrelevant because who a person is now is still the same as they were 5, 10, 15 years ago. There is only the illusion of age as a meaningful change.
In response to Amy's comment that the reader knows more about the characters than they do, I found this to be exceptionally true. One moment where this is relevant is when Prue voices her jealousy of Portia. Until this point Portia had no idea that her sister felt that way because she thinks of herself as being a wallflower who let Prue have the attention, and because Prue acts very confident and manipulative, as if she could have anything she wants. The audience, however, can sense Prue's insecurities because they know that she is hitting on George, Portia's husband.
This story was clever, I really liked the sense of time, or lack there of. The characters are focused upon, and through them we gain a sense of their back stories, and thus time's impact on the characters becomes more apparent. For instance, when George is first introduced to his great-grandfather's library, he can barely understand any of the books on the shelves. However, in the next paragraph, George is still in the same library, drinking coffee as he was the first time. This time however, he has read every book. Here, time has become insignificant, and all that matters to the reader is that George is the only one to have completed the entire library.
In response to Madie's post about time's irrelevance to the story I have to say that I agree. At various points characters were portrayed as existing in various states of time at once, such as the described scene where Portia was fifteen, twelve, nine, and six. This was portrayed by the presence of certain environmental objects such as a familiar rock and tree stump. Through these familiar settings, time would become irrelevant to both the character and the reader.
Interesting observation about the characters. I found that I enjoyed the characters to the point that I did not care much about their flaws, even thought they were central to the plot, which makes me wonder if you felt the same way.
The time element is a really interesting part of the story. It draws the reader in by posting the decades next to each other and drawing paralells. This forces us (the reader) to ponder Atwood's reasoning for doing this. Is it a deeper meaning or is it just a plot device?
Like I mentioned earlier with the decades, Atwood uses the parity of the cabin and the hints that George's Grandfather hasn't exactly adhered to the standards he preaches as a device. Time is crucial to this story, but Atwood at times violates the standards we know about time in order to show a point.
I agree with your comment. Atwood is quite good at showing the reader their own life through her characters. This is also a measured risk, as failing to do this will produce bland, unidentifiable characters, which WILL ruin the story. This works for her.
I have to agree that there is a lot of dramatic irony in this story. For example, the relationship between Prue and George, or the fact that we know Pam and George are the ones the boathouse at the end. I find it odd that Portia says that the sounds issuing from the boathouse remind her of her mother opening presents. This is such a pure depiction of Portia, and it could also hint at Pam's motherly treatment of Portia and Prue.
You mentioned that by blending the different time periods, Atwood blended the characters different "selves." I think this is a very interesting concept, and I have to say that I agree with you. Though people are indeed the same person all through their lives, they have different faces that they present the world over the course of time. Atwood brings these together, so that when it's all said and done, we have a very clear yet very muddled idea of who these people are...which is how I feel the characters view each other.
I want to relate your comment to Scott's idea of blending the characters' different selves over time. You said that Atwood lets you see the characters' entire lives all at once, but that age is only an illusion of meaningful change. As I mentioned in my comment to him, people do remain the same basic person throughout their lives. You are always you, I am always me. But when you look over the span of our entire lives, you see different "selves" that all blend together when you show them all at once. I feel like Atwood has a knack for doing this with her characters. As you mentioned with the scene of Portia in the water, she sees herself at different ages, but she is still the same person.
Consequently, as a general question to the class, what did you guys think of the last scene? Did you view it as surreal, or literal? And do you think it was out of place for Portia's character?
I think it's interesting that you mention the fact that George is the only one to have completed the great-grandfather's library. Considering the fact that he barely even knew English when he got there, this is a relatively impressive feat. However, as has been said before, we have no idea how long it took him to accomplish it. Still, it is curious that George is the only one who has taken an interest in the great-grandfather in such a way, yet all the characters appeal to the portrait of him in the washroom. This portrait seems to provide more of a presence than the great-grandfather himself, and while they don't necessarily refer to him with affection, they all still regard him as some source of advice and supervision.
That was really my point that Atwood's characters are very relatable and they allow the reader to see characteristics of themselves through the characters of the story. I think she uses the technique of slowly revealing the true self of the characters through small details being shown throughout the story. I think these details, revealed slowly for the reader is what makes the reader feel so attached to the characters.
In response to Jess, I thought that the last scene was definitely not meant to be literal, but is not quite surreal, as it wa not meant to be a view of the world of the story, but rather a view of the inside of Portia's head. I don't think it was necessarily out of place for Portia's character, but it did reflection a change/evolution for her. She spent most of her life thinking of herself as second-best; a wallflower to Prue and the wife who let her husband cheat on her because she couldn't do any better. In the final scene, she takes the chance to analyze herself as an individual, as opposed to seeing herself as others do or as she is affected and influenced by others.
The passage we read for Burroway dealt with summary and how information is summarized within a story. "Wilderness Tips" seems like a story where near everything is summarization and the most important details are the ones that only we, the audience, know. A big theme in this story is what is not said, what lies under the surface waiting to be said. We get such a thorough impression of George, Roland, and Portia, and at the same time we are not overwhelmed with information, because of Atwood's control over her summary. It seems like she fits supporting details in at every opportunity, but they flow within the confines of the story.
ReplyDeleteThe characters all seem to have some sort of flaw that makes them hard to like. George is a womanizer who only cares about himself, and his wife Portia is a ingenuous pushover. Roland is self-deprecating and resentful, and Pamela is a twittering old maid, while Prue is manipulative and caustic. And yet, something tells me that if I walked in on their dinner party having met none of them before, and never to see them again afterwards, they'd seem like normal, well-adjusted people. It's only through Atwood's summaries, what is left unsaid, that we are able to truly know them.
The time aspect of this story jumps back and forth between decades; it starts out talking about the forties and bandannas. It then jumps into the fifties and how it was a party time. With George whose real name isn’t George, talks about Prue not even being born, so it is apparent that he has lost track of time throughout the story. It tells different parts about each decade.
ReplyDeleteAlong with that I feel that Atwood is leaving out a lot of details and is being very vague with a lot of the story. I feel that way because of the certain details that are left out in the story.
In Response to Andrews comment I agree with him about the vagueness and leaving out details throughout the story. I agree that there is alot unsaid and unshown that leaves the reader thinking about what the hell happened
ReplyDeleteI think that the concept of time is very important in this story. George has an infinite amount of respect for the ways of his great-grandfather. He adheres as tightly as possible to the traditions of native Canadian culture and has built what he considers to be a tradition of existing in the wilderness.
ReplyDeleteHowever, at certain points in the story it is suggested that not even the great-grandfather, who designed his cabin to imitate that of a colonial wilderness cabin, has completely adhered to those ideals. George then, who doesn't even make the distinction between living in the cabin and wilderness living, is even further removed from the times he is so desperately trying to hang on to. What he assumes to be the traditions of native and colonial Canadians are actually traditions that are warped by the time period he himself lives in.
In response to Christian's comment, it is indeed interesting how Atwood has her characters looking back to past times. She constantly references traditions or objects such as the forties bandana as things that people take from past times, but also shows them being further and further lost and forgotten.
ReplyDeleteThe primary makeup of time in “Wilderness Tips” by Margaret Atwood is the consistency of the characters always looking back at their lives. This constant look back repeatedly reveals something new about the characters. As it is discussed in Burroway on pages 222-223 ones memory tells the story of ones life and it is a great natural story teller, along with the ideas of scene and summary intermixes for the creation of fictional place for the story. Time in “Wilderness Tips” is often best revealed through the characters, which in turn enhances our ability to see the characters and the scene with increased meaning.
ReplyDeleteOverall the story really struck me with great resemblance into the lives of ourselves and the people around us. My favorite lines was, “George realizes that a good deal of what she says is not directed not him or to any other listener but simply to herself,” and this moment really reveals something about George being able to interpret Pamela and also the character of Pamela who is complicated on many different levels (35). I also feel like there was a lot of self-reflection in the story and that the characters were dissected to the reader and look into their entire makeup, which turns out to not be a lot different from other people we know if our lives.
Throughout the story Wwilderness Tips" the reader is submerged into a world in which we seem to know more about what is going on than the characters seem to. The element of time jumps around a lot and we, as the reader, are exposed to many different time periods in which George is taking part in different activities which reflect that decade.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to me to see how certain objects are used to further illustrate that time period. For emample, the bandana is a good use of object to show the 40's and as quoted in Burroway; concrete details are effective ways of enganging the reader, which is why the bandana is so memorable.
In response to Andrew Pryors second paragraph I really agree with his statement, "It's only through Atwood's summaries, what is left unsaid, that we are able to truly know them." These people are a lot like us, and I felt as though I could identify with these characters. I feel like they are a reflection of us and they traits that are left unsaid by most people and yet Atwood goes to that place and reveals a lot to the reader.
ReplyDeleteIn response to what Autumn posted, I agree that a major element in the story has a lot to do with self-discovery through past experience. Memories are an effective way of revealing more about that character on an outsider looking in kind of way. I think the component of memories is consistent with Atwood's tactic of intentionally making some parts vague, as is a memory as time passes.
ReplyDeleteTime seems to be incredibly significant to this story's plot, and well, entire structure. We are led through decades and moments of time sporadically, whether through direct tales or just mere references to times long ago. One such reference, the Rosie the Riveter one, is suddenly thrust into a 50s reference from when 'George' grew up in garbage heaps. All of these muddled memories combined seem to unearth revelations only realized through exploring the past.
ReplyDeleteI found that by blending different time references into one solid block of setting/time, proved to be very interesting and managed to bring the characters' different 'selves' all into one. By referencing the hardships and moments shared throughout different times by the different characters we were able to flesh out each character through experiences riddled with juicy information.
I like Amy's reference to the Rosie bandana, it's perfectly true that it illustrates the significance of time period objects to add depth to a story..by including a red bandana and merely referencing its significance, impressive lines can be drawn in characterization of characters as well as time.
ReplyDeleteI love trama's comment regarding George's inability to separate traditions of old with traditions of new...the idea that Canadian traditions and native traditions are collapsing in on each other, and that George isn't sure of how to find his own place within the spectrum of time only further raises questions of time and one's own place within it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Scott's comment about the melding of different time periods and yeas. It really added to the theme of the story and the descriptions of the characters.
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting how an entire short story was able to cover time in a way that one could get a sense of a character's entire life, and not just who they were at the moment. Through summarization and bits of inconsistency, as in being all ages at once, reading this story is like watching their lives as an entire train, instead of in views of little box cars. One passage that particularly showed this for me was on pg. 42 when Portia is in the water, thinking about herself, "She is herself at fifteen, herself at twelve, herself at nine...safe to be this age, to know... that nothing will ever change."
ReplyDeleteAtwood conveys the idea of time was irrelevant because who a person is now is still the same as they were 5, 10, 15 years ago. There is only the illusion of age as a meaningful change.
In response to Amy's comment that the reader knows more about the characters than they do, I found this to be exceptionally true. One moment where this is relevant is when Prue voices her jealousy of Portia. Until this point Portia had no idea that her sister felt that way because she thinks of herself as being a wallflower who let Prue have the attention, and because Prue acts very confident and manipulative, as if she could have anything she wants. The audience, however, can sense Prue's insecurities because they know that she is hitting on George, Portia's husband.
ReplyDeleteThis story was clever, I really liked the sense of time, or lack there of. The characters are focused upon, and through them we gain a sense of their back stories, and thus time's impact on the characters becomes more apparent. For instance, when George is first introduced to his great-grandfather's library, he can barely understand any of the books on the shelves. However, in the next paragraph, George is still in the same library, drinking coffee as he was the first time. This time however, he has read every book.
ReplyDeleteHere, time has become insignificant, and all that matters to the reader is that George is the only one to have completed the entire library.
In response to Madie's post about time's irrelevance to the story I have to say that I agree. At various points characters were portrayed as existing in various states of time at once, such as the described scene where Portia was fifteen, twelve, nine, and six. This was portrayed by the presence of certain environmental objects such as a familiar rock and tree stump. Through these familiar settings, time would become irrelevant to both the character and the reader.
ReplyDelete@ Andrew
ReplyDeleteInteresting observation about the characters. I found that I enjoyed the characters to the point that I did not care much about their flaws, even thought they were central to the plot, which makes me wonder if you felt the same way.
@ Carter
ReplyDeleteThe time element is a really interesting part of the story. It draws the reader in by posting the decades next to each other and drawing paralells. This forces us (the reader) to ponder Atwood's reasoning for doing this. Is it a deeper meaning or is it just a plot device?
@ Luke
ReplyDeleteLike I mentioned earlier with the decades, Atwood uses the parity of the cabin and the hints that George's Grandfather hasn't exactly adhered to the standards he preaches as a device. Time is crucial to this story, but Atwood at times violates the standards we know about time in order to show a point.
@ Autumn
ReplyDeleteI agree with your comment. Atwood is quite good at showing the reader their own life through her characters. This is also a measured risk, as failing to do this will produce bland, unidentifiable characters, which WILL ruin the story. This works for her.
To Amy:
ReplyDeleteI have to agree that there is a lot of dramatic irony in this story. For example, the relationship between Prue and George, or the fact that we know Pam and George are the ones the boathouse at the end. I find it odd that Portia says that the sounds issuing from the boathouse remind her of her mother opening presents. This is such a pure depiction of Portia, and it could also hint at Pam's motherly treatment of Portia and Prue.
To Scott:
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned that by blending the different time periods, Atwood blended the characters different "selves." I think this is a very interesting concept, and I have to say that I agree with you. Though people are indeed the same person all through their lives, they have different faces that they present the world over the course of time. Atwood brings these together, so that when it's all said and done, we have a very clear yet very muddled idea of who these people are...which is how I feel the characters view each other.
To Madie:
ReplyDeleteI want to relate your comment to Scott's idea of blending the characters' different selves over time. You said that Atwood lets you see the characters' entire lives all at once, but that age is only an illusion of meaningful change. As I mentioned in my comment to him, people do remain the same basic person throughout their lives. You are always you, I am always me. But when you look over the span of our entire lives, you see different "selves" that all blend together when you show them all at once. I feel like Atwood has a knack for doing this with her characters. As you mentioned with the scene of Portia in the water, she sees herself at different ages, but she is still the same person.
Consequently, as a general question to the class, what did you guys think of the last scene? Did you view it as surreal, or literal? And do you think it was out of place for Portia's character?
To Kyle:
ReplyDeleteI think it's interesting that you mention the fact that George is the only one to have completed the great-grandfather's library. Considering the fact that he barely even knew English when he got there, this is a relatively impressive feat. However, as has been said before, we have no idea how long it took him to accomplish it. Still, it is curious that George is the only one who has taken an interest in the great-grandfather in such a way, yet all the characters appeal to the portrait of him in the washroom. This portrait seems to provide more of a presence than the great-grandfather himself, and while they don't necessarily refer to him with affection, they all still regard him as some source of advice and supervision.
In response to Brian’s Comment:
ReplyDeleteThat was really my point that Atwood's characters are very relatable and they allow the reader to see characteristics of themselves through the characters of the story. I think she uses the technique of slowly revealing the true self of the characters through small details being shown throughout the story. I think these details, revealed slowly for the reader is what makes the reader feel so attached to the characters.
In response to Jess, I thought that the last scene was definitely not meant to be literal, but is not quite surreal, as it wa not meant to be a view of the world of the story, but rather a view of the inside of Portia's head. I don't think it was necessarily out of place for Portia's character, but it did reflection a change/evolution for her. She spent most of her life thinking of herself as second-best; a wallflower to Prue and the wife who let her husband cheat on her because she couldn't do any better. In the final scene, she takes the chance to analyze herself as an individual, as opposed to seeing herself as others do or as she is affected and influenced by others.
ReplyDelete