 |
| Scene from Threads |
But voice aside, this story breaks my heart. Its depictions of loneliness and pain are paired with the characters' compromised efforts to find respite from their loneliness and pain. Yunior and Miss Lora both concern themselves with apocalyptic films because life has "messed [them] up good" and they project their internal destruction into external destruction. Yunior and Miss Lora have many similarities: both are immigrants from the Dominican Republic, both physically muscular, both traumatized by family life, both sleeping with their teachers. The way things repeat in the story (e.g. Miss Lora wears her red dress at one graduation, and then another) is similar to the greater picture of how history repeats itself (like-father-like-son machismo, or more sweepingly, one answerless death like another). And "blood always shows," as Yunior tells his ambitious girlfriend. Miss Lora has enormous eyes, and she sees the pain in young Yunior, and he finds her need for him compelling. Sometimes, our response to being exposed to trauma is to seek it out in representations, such as movies, or books, or photographs in which we are smiling and blinking and keeping on keeping on.
Diaz seems to be a fan of the same writing style and same type of stories. I do feel "Miss Lora" is a bit different from his other stories we had to read for class. This one seems to have much more of an emphasize on the main character instead of the supporting characters, not that his other stories don't have a large portion of the text dedicated to the protagonist, it's just I feel like I knew the lead more and the supporting characters less in this one. I have no idea who the narrator is supposed to be and it took a couple pages for me to stop guessing and decide that the story wasn't going to bother with it, but that "you" style did set me up with the wrong impression. I was curious about the lead's interest in a nuclear holocaust and that is clearly supposed to be important to something, but I don't think I quite figured it out yet, sometimes it takes longer to completely comprehend some things. Perhaps it is supposed to highlight how the protagonist prepares for the worst or expects the worst or maybe he's just a cynic.
ReplyDeleteThis was honestly probably one of the most interesting stories I’ve read in awhile. Not because of the plot in general but because of how it was written. Writing an entire story in second person is simply fascinating since it limits the main character in a way that most stories simply can’t do. Most often you find that first person stories allow the reader to step into the shoes of the main character but in second person its different. The narrator is constantly calling the reader you forcing them to step into their shoes in a different perspective. I think that for this story to work, it had to be written in the second person view point.
ReplyDeleteContinuing about the actually story, it seemed to me to be about one characters utter fascination with his brothers and fathers habits. He seems to be constantly referring to how they acted when they were around. Very rarely in the story does he question how he’s acting unless its comparing himself to what they did. I think this is because the main character knows he’s unlike his family and actually is falling in love with Miss Lora. He just can’t admit it and instead focuses upon the aspect that he’s cheating on his girlfriend at the time. I think because the main character focuses on his family’s dynamic and less upon his own keeps him at a barrier of sorts for the outside world. If he’s only acting like his family its much easier to rationalize than something alien to him like falling in love would be.
Honestly, I think this was such an interesting read I would have to probably read it numerous times to get everything. But one last thing I would like to mention would be that it was only until she left the neighborhood that he did. And in the end, he just ended up trying to follow her again.
Even though Yunior was in all of the stories and there obviously were interlocking elements to all of them, I also felt like they were different. Even though the writing style was similar and there were aspects that Diaz reused for characters, I didn't feel like I was going to mix characters up from one story to another because there were enough differences between them.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nick about how the story was laid out. I've never read a story that was written from this perspective, but I liked it. I thought it was different way to write something that was written about before Diaz came along, but Diaz made it have a different quality to the way he wrote it that made it stand out to me. Short stories don't normally stand out to me as great pieces of literature, but "Miss Lora" in particular did which was a nice surprise thought that came to me while I was finishing the story.
I also left the story thinking I was missing something though. I felt like there was an aspect of it that you weren't supposed to get on the first reading. It felt to me like Diaz was motivating the reader to go back, read the story for a second time and try to get more into the narrator's world.
As my classmates have stated above, the second person at first jarred me, because we are not used to this point of view. It’s something writers seem to avoid, mainly because it doesn’t end up working. However, Diaz carries the second person through the entire piece. I think there is an importance in Diaz choosing second person. From first person we could see Yunior through his own eyes, understand how he feels and more so why he does what he does. Through second person, we see more how other characters affect Yunior, and Yunior’s actions feel much more personal. With the outside narrator, we get the sense that the main character doesn’t really know what he’s doing or why he’s doing it. The second person brings the story outside of the actions of the main character. In a way it’s a reflection. It shows what happened in the past, allowing the main character to look back on his actions.
ReplyDeleteThis story reveals family connection and how really that dynamic can affect you. I can see this coming into play with the repeated thought of the world ending versus not ending. In this story there is this sense of impending doom, though the characters like Yunior and Miss Lora seemed to hope for it, as a kind of escape from loneliness. Yunior has this perception of his father and especially his brother, and since both are no longer around, he is stuck with only the idea of them. His brother is his greatest influence, and this is said in the first sentence of this piece, where Diaz says “Years later, you would wonder if it hadn’t been for your brother, would you have don’t it?” (58). I think Yunior sees the end of the world as the way he will avoid the path his father and brother took. He resists the idea of being sucio, which I translate to mean filthy or shameful. Miss Lora at first to him is someone he can relate to. To him, she is also lonely, and she shares the same interest in the apocalypse. Miss Lora becomes the person who removes his loneliness. Paloma couldn’t be the one to pull Yunior from his loneliness or from his thoughts of the world ending. She was the girlfriend who couldn’t relate or rather refused to relate. Miss Lora on the other hand was an escape for Yunior regardless of her actually being the similar trap that once had hold of Rafa and Yunior’s father.
Through the second person point of view and the combination of Yunior’s loneliness and obsession with apocalypse, we can see how Diaz crafts a story of reflection. These elements show not only the reader, but also Yunior how you are not necessarily the one in control of your own life. You can avoid being sucio like your brother and father, but if that is what it takes to get past your loneliness, then there really isn’t anything that will stop you.
I do not think that I have ever read a story that was written in second person before. I have to admit that it took a little getting used to for me. But anyway, when this story first started I thought it was going to go into a completely different direction. They were talkinga bout the bother and how when he got to his last few weak that he stopped talking to everyone and I thought that Miss Lora was going to be the one person who connected with him and the only person that the brother would talk to. This entire way of thinking was quite funny once his own brother had a hard time feeling bad about it, because Rafa was such an asshole.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nick that this story does work mainly because of Diaz’s choice to write it in second person. Although, it took me a little bit of getting used to, I really enjoyed it, because in a way the author is almost implanting this characters thoughts into your head saying, “This is what you thought of this situation” and at the same time you still understand what kind of person this character is.
We have this main character who has no idea what he’s doing with his life, who is also attracted to a woman that went through that same exact situation. He is put in the position of “I don’t want to be like my brother and my dad” which is the exact thing he finds himself doing. He also says that he won’t cheat on Paloma and he does that. This story seems to be one of those you’ll become everything that you hate kind of stories, but he doesn’t hate himself. He sees these things that he’s doing as almost an inevitable event. Like that now that it has happened to him he can’t do much to fix it.
Then there is the whole aspect of the world ending, which is something that seems kind of strong in the beginning but I feel like it fades as the story goes on. But it also connects someway to all of the “mistakes” that he has made because he brings it up that “it” doesn’t really matter because none of this will survive the end of the world. And I think that’s part of the reason he doesn’t feel bad about the things that he is doing.
I was first introduced to Junot Díaz’s writing and his character of Yunior in the story Nilda. Even after reading these four other stories, that one still surpasses them by a mile (it’s one of the best short stories I’ve ever read), but I really enjoyed Miss Lora, too. I’ve grown pretty attached to Yunior, and the way he loves women is really beautiful and intense. But I don’t get the feeling that he loves Miss Lora—or at least, he isn’t “in love” with her. I think his feelings for her are fueled a lot by what he is going through, not by who she is or who he is with her. I think a couple in love would have moments of joy with each other, but with them it is more like they are fulfilling a need to not feel alone. “You are scared stupid at what you are doing, but it is also exciting and makes you feel less lonely in the world.” At first, it seems like Miss Lora loves Yunior in the kind of way that means she wants the best for him, even if it means losing him. She is always pushing college applications and brochures on him, urging to go somewhere and do something with his life. But as their relationship continues, she begs him to stay. I think she grows more attached to his almost continuous presence than to Yunior himself. At first, he was a temporary solution to her loneliness, but now she realizes that it could be permanent, or at least she wants it that way.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that Yunior seems to value between them is the fact that, as a grown woman in her own home, Miss Lora feels no need to be secretive when they are together. “But she kisses your face over and over, and it moves you. No one has ever done that. The girls you’ve boned were always ashamed afterward. And there was always panic. Someone heard. Fix the bed up. Open the windows. Here there is none of that. Afterward, she sits up, her chest as unadorned as yours.” Once he brings her into his own home, however, things are different. He can’t relax and simply be with her because he is constantly on edge, waiting for someone to discover them. Also, there seems to be a sense of discomfort that is hinted at. “It’s unsettling to wake up in your bed with her. She makes coffee and scrambled eggs and listens not to Radio Wado but to the Morning Zoo and laughs at everything. It’s too strange. Paloma calls to see if you are going to school, and Miss Lora is walking around in a T-shirt, her flat skinny rump visible.” Now that she is coming into his life, rather than he into hers, he is realizing that this doesn’t quite fit.
As for second person, I’m not sure how I feel about it. It almost feels like the writer thought, since he was writing about the same character yet again, that he could at least change it up and write in second-person instead. He might as well have chosen first person. Yunior is so distinct, at least to me after reading so much about him, that the second-person doesn’t make me feel like I am in his place. I see him in this story, and I can sympathize with him through first-person just fine.
I think that what strikes me most about their fascination with the apocalypse is that it has pretty much happened in their own lives. Yunior’s father left them, his brother died from cancer, and he doesn’t seem to have that close of a relationship with his mother. Miss Lora had a mom who fled and a father who threatened to kill himself. As my classmates have pointed out, both of them find comfort in an older teacher. Miss Lora had tried to run to different places until she settled in Yunior’s town. I think that Miss Lora feels a lot of empathy toward Yunior as she sees in him what she saw in herself: the need for companionship. She tries to get him to open up about his brother but as Yunior states, “What’s there to say? He got cancer. He died.” Even when their relationship has progressed to this point, he still resists her.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Audrey said about the moment where he realizes that she doesn’t quite fit. I found it really interesting that when he tried to separate from her, she at first tried to push him and then tried to hold on as she became more and more attached. Even after he has pulled away, she still makes a point to be at his graduations. I think it is really interesting that that seems to be the point where she lets go of him and he realizes how much he misses her. He doesn’t try to talk to her at graduation but he makes a point to try to find her again. The story ends leaving the reader feeling a bit like Yunior does at the end, empty.
I really enjoyed the imagery in this piece. At the pool, he notices that she is “always swimming underwater, the black waves of her hair flowing behind her like a school of eels.” What really strikes Yunior at first about her is her appearance and how people always judged her. After his brother dies, he notices that she is always coming over to talk to his mom and would stop him in the parking lot to ask how he was doing. This is what I feel makes him come over to her house. Even then, he starts to see her as a person that he can be comfortable with and open up to.
Second person is a hard voice to get right. It often makes the reader feel distanced, because there are so many personal interpretation possibilities of the “you” that too much feels left up to the reader’s imagination, and their tendencies to say I wouldn’t feel that way, than in other perspectives. What works for Diaz is the way that Junior is so defined. Junior, in so many ways, is incredibly self-aware of his voice. Even if he does not understand why he thinks certain things, he understands them enough to project them onto the reader. It took me three quarters of the story to even catch onto the fact that it was second person because of how defined and specific the voice was regardless of that stylistic detail.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, while I love the Junot Diaz has such a distinguished and specific writing style and voice, I question whether Diaz goes too far with allowing both for a nontraditional voice perspective and nontraditional quote format. I think that the two together often muddle one another. It is so important, when a story is written in second person, to get that sense of what exactly the narrator who is distinguishing the “you” is. This places a serious emphasis on what is spoken to him and what he speaks to the reader through the “you.” Some of the dialogue presented as paragraphs blended with Junior’s observations and muddied the writing in my mind, though it is a testament to Diaz’s command of this style that there were as few of these moments of upset balance as there were.
This story is tragic in so many ways, and represents perfectly, at least in my mind, the way that moments from the past just keep coming back to interact with each other. I loved the way that Miss Lora provided almost a reflection of Junior — older and feminine, yet similarly rooted in this cycle of finding people and then turning towards someone else. It seems to say something about maturity and age, the way that Miss Lora sees a different path for Junior even as she seems to be similarly defined in life.
I liked this story for how much closer it brought the reader than his others. I love the way that Junot Diaz defines his style so specifically, and I will never fully critique someone who is able to employ the same style again and again and not make the reader feel like they’ve read the same thing too many times for their taste. That being said, I find his work slightly distancing on occasion. Especially within the context of the three stories in the other book, Diaz always seems as if he is getting so many details perfect, what they ate, and said, and thought, yet he often seems to be writing to a reader that is specifically aware of these moments. As someone who does not have as much experience with South American culture, I feel like some of the moments in his pieces go over my head as I try to catch up to the things he passes over without really throwing the reader any kind of bone to help them understand. This critique in no way diminishes his work, but it is a frustration that always keeps me slightly less invested in what he has to say than other writers I have read.
Not being very familiar with second person stories, Junot Diaz, completely captured my attention from the first paragraph. At first it was a little jarring and I had to keep reading for a page or two to get into the rhythm of it. From there though, I was completely hooked, and I felt completely enveloped by this story of Yunior and Miss Lora. I felt completely invested in the characters and even the stylistic choice of writing in second person. Second person is not easily accomplished as we all know, but Junot Diaz does a fabulous job of creating a sense of sadness and loneliness that is woven throughout this narration. I do think however, that having the story written in second person, caused me to read it rather quickly. It’s hard to say if that was his choice of language or if it really is from it being in second person, but because of this, I think there are pieces of the story I would have to visit again to fully understand.
ReplyDeleteWhat was also interesting for the me as the reader was the combination of Spanish that was used through out the text. There were times when I had to slow down, as the reader, to understand what was going on. I mostly could understand what was being conveyed with the Spanish knowledge I already have but the line I had to look up was when she told him not to be jealous. I think that having that specific line in Spanish was interesting because it was almost like she didn’t want it to be real. It was like an offhanded way of saying what she really meant.
I think that in many ways Miss Lora played as a scapegoat both from herself and for Yunior. They both have damaged pasts and confide in one another to escape from this reality they are so afraid of. I don’t think however, Yunior ever really finds peace. Even when he does find someone in college, it’s almost like he’s doing it because he feels he has to, not because he wants to. He’s still chasing the girl in the red dress.
I have to admit that I didn't find the use of second-person as distracting as I might have. I still think it's a little gimmicky or quirky, as a matter of principle, but after a while I was able to just slip into the story, because it wasn't entirely dictation: there's more than enough of Yunior describing his experiences and thoughts, and it blends pretty well.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I thought "Miss Lora" was okay. I don't think it was as good as "Ysrael" or "Fiesta, 1980" because Yunior's grown-up, self-aware voice really grates on me on account of the fusion of Spanish/ghetto lingo, a new level of writerliness, and his occasional hyper-aware references to his own structuring of the story and his anticipation of the reader. Though it can't help that I'm not very fond of Spanish. These attributes sometimes combine in a way that is just jarring for me.
With that said, I thought "Miss Lora" was still an interesting story. Yunior's adult voice here wasn't as distracting as in "The Sun, the Moon, the Stars," and the characters, involved or deceased, are all well written and well explored. To try to add a new comment, though, when I was reading it, at first it almost seems like Miss Lora was also fawning over Rafa (like so many other women, apparently), what with comparing Yunior's appearance to his and smelling his boxing gloves. Was that just me? I thought that, in particular, was interesting, as well as the way that that sort of fell away once Miss Lora got more attached to Yunior himself and then started visiting him. Like it progressed realistically from a more generalized lust to an attachment. Though I agree that Yunior probably didn't love her back (if Miss Lora even loved him, herself). Aside from that, other people have covered things that I agree with.
The second person also surprised me. I had to slow down to understand the dialogue more clearly, making me pay more attention to each line. I read Miss Lora after the three other pieces which helped me understand Yunior’s character better. I think that if you do not read Junot Diaz’s other stories, you will miss something. They show how Yunior’s brother and father acted with women, giving me the context to understand why he continues to compare himself to them. In some way, I feel like he cannot avoid cheating on his girlfriends, because that is what everyone else did. I am not sure if she loves him and if he loves her, but I think that he feels that this relationship is what is expected of him. I think that Diaz shows that there could be more emotion involved when Miss Lora comes to both of his graduations, in a red dress, when Yunior lets her come to his house, and the final moments. Miss Lora’s appearance at his college graduation showed me that she cared for him and had not forgotten him. Yunior was scared to have her in his house, but he let her see Rafa’s things. Yunior allowed Lora to see him being vulnerable. The final moment in the story happens quickly and if you read it too quickly you may miss some of Diaz’s details. Yunior is finally happy at the end.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is interesting how Diaz uses many of the same ideas and characters throughout his stories. I think it has allowed him to really know his characters, their history, their personality, and their language. Diaz puts himself into these stories. The use of Spanish in the Miss Lora seemed natural; his characters would speak Spanish and English. I think it could possibly distance the reader if they do not understand Spanish, but I do not think there is too much and usually the context helps you understand. Diaz’s voice for each piece is realistic and intriguing. Yunior is honest and sad, making the reader want to know what will happen next.
While many of those who have posted have mentioned the second person form (and that is rather off-putting for the first few pages), I found the generous amount of Spanish to be a bit annoying. Like the conversation on page 62 between Rafa and his mother, the one where he gets slapped. Wish I knew what they were saying. Still, part of the beauty is that you don’t have to. The author tells you of the unsettling similarities between Rafa, Yunior, and their father, so it’s possible to mentally fill in the blanks. In some senses, this liberal use of Spanish is a point in the author’s favor, since we don’t need to understand it in a literal sense; we already understand. To add to that, do we really want to know what that conversation was about and why Rafa got slapped? Probably not.
ReplyDeleteBut back to the actual story. This is the first time I’ve come a crossed an older woman/younger man relationship in a book. However, I’ve seen this relationship twice on screen before, and both times it always had a tension about it. There is certainly a tension in Yunior’s relationship with Miss Lora; one being fear of his mother finding out, especially since she already lost two important men in her life in the same manner. Fear of his girlfriend finding out, even after all she did to help him through school and the S.A.T.s. Still, the very reason Yunior was driven to Lora in the first place was because he wasn’t getting emotional or physical satisfaction out of Paloma: in the former’s case, she doesn’t seem interested in his end of the world fantasies, nor does she seem interested in really bonding with him at all. The latter case is self-explanatory.
The compelling part of the story is that Lora satisfies both of these needs in Yunior. Which creates the tension in the story. We understand why this relationship is happening, but the world wouldn't understand.
I do have to disagree with what Regan said about the second person. I liked the second person form in these stories. I read his short story "How to Date a Browngirl, Blackgirl, Whitegirl or Halfie" and "The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao" in Catherine's intro to fiction class last semester. The character from "How to Date a Browngirl, Blackgirl, Whitegirl or Halfie" reminds me a lot of Yunior and wonder if Diaz used a similar voice on purpose or not. In that story when he hid the photo of his naked cousins with the goat on a leash and the government cheese where she'll never see it reminded me of when he took his girlfriend back to the DR with him and felt as though that part of his life, of his culture was something she would rather have him hide.
ReplyDeleteAlthough this story is in second person I felt that these Spanish words helped to make you feel as though you are closer to him. In the short story "How to Date a Browngirl, Blackgirl, Whitegirl or Halfie" he used Spanish words as well (although he had "busted-up spanish") and I liked their inclusion.
As much as this is Yunior's culture it wasn't the character's in the other story, and felt like in both cases I wanted to know what was said but at the same time I agree with Jim, because I don't need to know to understand everything else and it just adds to the reality of the story. I wouldn't know what they were saying if I saw them speaking in Spanish together in real life anyway. I like what second person stories can do for a reader, what they can indirectly say to the reader, while still saying "you".