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| Ragged Claws Network |
In the handy voice of Mr. Phillips, "Where do you want to live?" The choices are necessarily limited by the imaginations of the architects who have come before; there is nothing but those to inhabit, unless you don't need shelter. (But we need shelter.) Unless you can, like Cecelia--whose name means 'way for the blind' or 'one of shining light'--dream. This will make people uncomfortable. They will reject and want and need and fear and possibly even try to destroy you. Barthelme writes to forge a door on the world we don't imagine but instead inhabit and therefore having to imagine not-inhabiting. To use a different metaphor, he wishes to illuminate the worn path, and he chooses a different route [ha] than Welty. What a challenge, a necessary challenge, necessary if we are to ever see outside our limits.
Would Barthelme agree that each of his stories is a new church? Would he explain, instead, that each is a dream? (But perhaps agree that a dream, once shared, becomes a church?) I don't know. I do know that he doesn't let you inside his dream easily. The doors do not gape like hungry mouths. They do seem to open when you knock, knock, and knock again. It is a struggle to get inside. However (although if he were alive, he might, and I paraphrase here, "regard C. with hatred" for pointing, and thus limiting, like this), I wish to guide your struggle. If you're looking for a way inside "Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning," try rereading the heart of the penultimate section of the story, "He Discusses the French Writer, Poulet."
And then go look up Georges Poulet on Wikipedia. Then you're inside a dream.
Wow, first comment.
ReplyDeleteSo, for starters, I barely finished the introduction to Barthelme when I decided I loved this writer and then I said - maybe I should read the stories before I decide that - and i read them and I think he is most likely one of my favorite authors now (I don't like giving guarantees). I was going to skip 'The School' since we sort of already read it but I read the end to refresh myself but then went back to the beginning and read the whole thing. Just curled up in the library with this massive book and read all three stories straight through.
Anyway - 'A City of Churches' - if such a town existed I would stay far away from it. It's just so...strange even in the context of the story itself. They have to have everything in its place a specific set of rules, a strict regimented way of life - even if they don't need certain roles in that way of life. I have a feeling that Cecelia got out of that town no matter how Mr. Phillips was trying to get her (read - force) her to stay. (at least that what I would like to think) As a non-religious person with a grandmother who attempted to encourage church going, a CITY of churches (of JUST churches - in New York I can appreciate the beauty of architecture) would actually frighten me. (okay, maybe intimidate would be a better word.) They also have particular customs (everyone has a roommate - it's odd to have a single. Though at first Mr. Phillips was just 'this is how things are' and then at the end 'you will be forced to stay here - it is our will' (totally paraphrasing that). In fact I could just talk about this story for many many paragraphs (maybe) if I went how this could be read. For example it could be read as Christianity spreading over the planet - missionaries 'educating savages/barbarians' in the way of the 'one and only God'. It's like saying 'Oh you don't HAVE to convert...we just strongly suggest it or we'll kill your entire 'nation'.' (it doesn't have to be a nation with boarders - how do you spell that?) This story could be read as Cecelia trying to get away but failing at the end (though we don't see it) but maybe she does and then the story is in an entirely new direction.
'The School'! Well, as said before we already sort of read this in class. I don't want to repeat too much of what we said there but The School is a fascinating piece even though I can't read it into like I can with 'A City of Churches'. It's...strange. Social commentary? It seems like our culture (at least America) is rather unaccepting of death while simultaneously accepting it - (in the form of violent movies, dramatic deaths of characters, crowning moments of awesome (at death's door) heroic sacrifice...)
But when people die we don't (usually) say 'Oh, my father died'. We say 'My father passed away' or he expired, or...he moved on or 'He passed on'. ('moved on' used in the case of death is very ambiguous. That could be –‘ oh, this didn't work out so he moved on.’) There's also 'They went to the Happy Hunting Grounds' or 'They went to be with God' etc.
(Mine was really long this week. It went over the character limit. so slightly sheepishly here is the rest. I just kinda let it go)
ReplyDeleteWe also have different words for death depending on the cause of death - kill, murder, suicide, matricide, infanticide, patricide, homicide (I think murder and homicide are the same thing usually but murder is intentional manslaughter is by accident), slay, assassination (and assassins get their own special to denote they are EXPERTS at killing unlike those plain ole murders.) Point is that we seem both repelled and drawn by death but when something normal comes in (school work, responsibilities) we go back to what we were doing as if everything's normal though maybe you're really just a shell with a million glass pieces that you have somehow glue back together or maybe you're not or maybe your whole being is a million pieces. I don't know
"Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning," - is he talking about this Robert person or JFK because I thought this was a prediction of the assassination...
I was somewhat lost with this story though I really like the style and the quality and the various little sections. It's more like a character study than a story because we get to this single person from many different angles and it's not quite snap-shot form. Oh! My difficulty trying to put this in a category can be reflective of how much labels people tried to stick on Barthelme and I love how he AVOIDS the labels and "Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning," does the same thing.
Final scene in that story was interesting but confusing - it took us OUT of the little character studies and in to an alternate reality/time sort of thing. (Why is he in the water? Was he pushed? Did he jump in and now he is stuck like 'oh crap I can't swim/i have no energy?!') The Penultimate scene I loved - it was a perfect demonstration of why I am a creative writing/philosophy double major. 'The Marivadian being...is a pastless, futureless man born anew at every instant'. It's similar to what I said - 'the present exists for only a moment.' But trying to conceive the nonexistence of time just blows my mind and I'm going to stop now before I confuse people further.
So I bought my 3x33 book used and up until now have seen no signs of it being used. Then I read Bathelme "City of Churches". On the last page the previous owner wrote "uh..." and I laughed and I quickly skimmed through the rest of his stories to see if there were any more notes from that person. (There were not.) But really, that type of reaction could fit in many places throughout "City of Churches". I think the biggest jump was between page 182 and 183 where I actually thought a page had been torn out of the book. How did he take me from a talk about denomination to dreams? Cecelia sounds crazy! And it's not even like she has some power to bring dreams to life or something. She is literally just willing to escape into sleep and her dreams, ignoring reality.
ReplyDeleteAnd then I thought about the very first line of the story, where Mr. Phillips comes right out and tells Cecelia, “ours is a city of churches all right.” Never once was there an attempt to cover up what the town was. When she asked to live alone, he never made polite noises in subtle suggestion that maybe that wasn’t something you admitted to. It seemed odd to me then, that the businesses were all hiding inside of churches. I assumed they were hiding because of the inconspicuous red and white barber pole that was brought up. But maybe they aren’t? Maybes instead these businesses are showing their true colors. I thought of the different hats people where throughout the day. ‘Writer’ or ‘Student’ or ‘Roommate’ or ‘Girl’ or ‘Boy’ and how sometimes we hide from one hat by wearing another. Maybe in this town no one is hiding.
But then again, in the end they want Cecelia to be there car rental girl and stand behind her counter. It’s as if they’re in a scary horror movie and she’s the missing piece in their psycho town crafted out of bits and pieces of others. She’s like the eyeball the monster, made out of other people’s body parts, takes from its creator at the end of the movie. But through it all Cecelia holds fast and says that she is a dreamer. And because she is a dreamer she won’t “Be nice.” So maybe these churches are hideouts, one more set of hats adopted by the community, and Cecelia is the unconventional outsider that can’t leave but refuses to bit into their ticky-tacky little churches. Or maybe she is simply refusing to see the world as it is.
I absolutely love this story even though I’m sure all of what it made me think about was just a portion of what the story is really doing. I find that some of my favorite stories are the ones where I couldn’t say for sure what it is about them I love. I also really enjoyed “The School” – turning children into the voice of wisdom on matters of life and death was just perfect, and the ending gives me chills each time I read it – but there was something about “City of Churches”, maybe it was that “cheerful horror” mentioned in the introduction, that just settled into my chest and refused to leave.
Wow. I had a lot of trouble with these stories. “A City of Churches” was quick to read but not to comprehend, and “Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning” the most difficult for me. I appreciate that was had already read and analyzed “The School” before trying to read Barthelme as a unit, because having a class period of insight into his humor and his general style did make reading the other two stories easier on me that it would have been otherwise. Without that I would have wound up being incredibly frustrated by tonight’s assignment. I’m a very literal person and stories like these are so difficult for me to get through, particularly because in the introduction there is mention of the fact that Barthelme plays around with hinting at morals without necessarily intended for a conclusive lesson. Barthelme seems to mess around with his reader on purpose, and that’s something I don’t read well. There is so, so much going on in these stories – there are so many different layers to the Baxter readings – and a lot of it pertains to things I didn’t pick up on or can’t really see. It’s frustrating trying to pick something to say about a reading I didn’t read well.
ReplyDeleteUpon scanning the other blog posts that are up so far, I see that Alison mentions the “cheerful horror” felt while reading “City of Churches”. She’s right – even without understanding the undertones, without catching all of the references, there is a building sense of foreboding as the characters move through the town. I was reminded somewhat of the town of Spectre from “Big Fish” – perfect but incomplete, trying to trap you and claim you for its own, incredibly eerie behind the white, wide smiles.
I don’t have much to say about “Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning”. The formatting of the story is so interesting – I like the scenes that are purely dialogue and the feeling that this is a set of notes being pieced together. I didn’t grasp what the story was about overall or what was happening between the lines, though, not at all. I hope we have a good discussion about this during class to fill me in.
One of the biggest things that I noticed about Donald Barthelme was the simplicity, yet creativity that his stories were made up of. I liked that their ideas were very clever, and I enjoyed some of the humor that was in them. My favorite one was “A city of churches” it seemed like a ridiculous idea. But as Catherine said, the word “churches” can be replaced with the word “building” or “container.” I think this is an interesting story to explore in this way, because if you say that it is a city of buildings, no one would find anything odd about that. This goes to show that this city may not be that different than any city that we are used to. My favorite interpretation of this would be to call the churches containers. In the story Cecelia is being forced to take her proper spot behind the desk where she belongs. She doesn’t want this life for herself, and she wants for nothing more than to escape. However she doesn’t leave at the end, she says that one day she will, but from what we can see, she is only left to escape into her dreams. This is a lot like our society. People in our world find themselves simply filling a niche. They are trapped in a pattern, only dreaming to stop and do great things. It is interesting that Cecelia has to work at the desk for the car place, when the car is the one thing that she would need to leave. I just thought that was odd, and a little interesting. It may show that the way to escape from a container could be right behind a person, but they still can’t bring themselves to use it no matter how close it is.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Alexis in that these stories were a little hard for me to get into especially “Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning”. I think it is because they are very experimental and very short that it doesn’t give me a lot of room to connect with the characters and to the plot. Also I have trouble getting into any satirical stories if that is what you would call these stories. The story I liked the best was “A City of Churches” just because I found his idea of everything to live in churches to be intriguing and said a lot about religion itself. I also liked how the main characters were both contradictory to each other in that the real estate agent was trying as hard as he could to persuade Cecelia to move in but Cecelia had other ambitions. I got the sense that this piece was a satire of religion and how people are very attached to their churches. I was kind of hoping that this story would be longer or to see really what it is like to live in this city. I never heard of a city of just churches, which is what makes this piece very unique and interesting.
ReplyDeleteWe already went over “The School” and I had no problems with that. I guess “The School” and “A City of Churches” had very similar writing styles that it enabled me to read the stories alright. The last one about Robert Kennedy was the hardest for me to read and I still don’t like it after word because it was too bizarre for me. It was also funny in that I had a very similar experience with Alison in that reading the last story was the first time I see any writing in the book and there was a lot which shows how strange and thought provoking this piece was. I did understand that they are snapshots of this guy’s life but they were too far apart from each other that I had no idea what was going on. I couldn’t tell if this was a satire on Robert Kennedy himself or that it was just another guy who happened to share the same name. I think the way he had the story set up was interesting in that there were little scenes but I didn’t see any connection between them. Also I don’t understand how the title corresponds to the story except for the ending. Maybe our class discussions will help me understand what this piece was more about.
This blog was inspired by A City of Churches. The churches are replaced with a different type of institution that modern Americans seem to be worshipping more and more.
ReplyDelete“Yes,” Mr. Phillips said, “ours is a city of food all right.”
Cecelia nodded, following his pointing hand. Both sides of the street were solidly lined with restaurants, standing shoulder to shoulder in a variety of architectural styles. McDonald’s stood next to the Burger King, Wendy’s next to Taco Bell. Then came Panda Express, China Max, Saladworks, Cici’s Pizzeria, Clubhouse Diner, Nifty Fifty’s, and Friendly’s.
“Everyone here takes a great interest in their taste buds,” Mr. Phillips said.
Will I fit in? Cecelia wondered. She had come to Prester to open a gym.
“I’m usually not especially hungry,” she said to Mr. Phillips, who was in the real-estate business.
“Not now,” he answered. “Not yet. But we have many fine young people here. You’ll get integrated into the community soon enough. The immediate problem is where are you to live? Most people,” he said, “live in the church of their choice. All of our restaurants have many extra rooms. What price range were you thinking of?”
They turned a corner and were confronted with more restaurants. They passed Denny’s, Red Lobster, Applebee’s, Eat N’ Park, Checkers, Great American Diner, Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Papa John’s. The mouths of all the restaurants were gaping open. Inside, lights could be seen dimly.
“I can go up to a hundred and ten,” Cecelia said. “Do you have any buildings here that are not eateries?”
“None,” said Mr. Phillips. “Of course many of our fine restaurant structures also do double duty as something else. That one,” he said, “houses Pizza Hut and the Board of Education. The one next to it, which is China House Buffet, has the barbershop.”
It was true. A red-and-white striped barber pole was attached inconspicuously to the front of the Chine House Buffet.
“Do many people work out here?” Cecelia asked. “Or would they, if there was a handy place to do so?”
“Oh, I don’t know,” said Mr. Phillips. “Working out implies that you want to get rid of what you eat. Most people like to keep their food with them. We have a lot of activities. I don’t think I’d pick a gym business if I was just starting out in Prester. But you’ll do fine.” He showed her a small, extremely modern building with a severe brick, steel, and glass front. “That’s Old Country Buffet. Nice bunch of people over there. Wonderful spaghetti suppers.”
Cecelia could see a number of heads looking out of the windows. But when they saw that she was staring at them, the heads disappeared.
“Do you think it’s healthy for so many restaurants to be gathered together in one place?” she asked her guide. “It doesn’t seem…balanced, if you know what I mean.”
“We are famous for our restaurants,” Mr. Phillips replied. “They are harmless. Here we are now.”
I enjoy Barthelme a great deal. Being unique is the first thing I look to in workshop stories and by that standard Barthelme is fantastic. He has a distinct style and voice; his stories may be short but leave me with so much to think about.
ReplyDelete“A City of Churches” is a story that leaves you imagining the world he has created. I was thinking like Amy, what other cities would leave this kind of impression. I like the food city, I would live there IMMEDIATELY. The most depressing examples I could think of were “a city of hospitals” and “a city of prisons”. As a non-religious person I feel at times like I’m in a city of churches at Susquehanna. I’m not a believer in an after life and people look at me like I’m insane. Which is why I do not talk about what I believe unless prodded. Or if it’s on a blog post I guess…crap. I prefer to live in a city of different buildings because sometimes I have to mail a letter and other times I want a sandwich. Can’t get that kind of variety in a city of churches Barthelme! You crazy writer.
We talked about “The School” before in class so I don’t feel like talking about it again that much. I do enjoy it even if I don’t completely understand the true message. Just like “2001: A Space Odyssey” I may not have any idea what the hell is happening but I have fun during it. I do have to say I once yelled at my teacher to show my class how to make love to have an assertion of value. I have to say all that gets you is a one-way ticket out of Silas’ editing class. I do not recommend it.
The RFK story was very interesting. It was arranged very distinctively and the meaning was hard to ascertain. I am a huge Bobby Kennedy fan. I have read “The Last Campaign”, an account of RFK’s ’68 presidential campaign, a number of times and am still captivated by him. One aspect of his personality that he did have was constantly predicting his own painful end. He would say that he knew he was going to be assassinated but had accepted it. I feel like Barthelme was trying to accept the unfair death of both Bobby and Jack, dealing with the pain watching those icons of youth and hope be destroyed. RFK’s ghost in 2012!
Ah I need revision. I wrote that last paragraph without even really thinking, it was obviously more of a reflection of how I felt. Barthelme couldn't have being dealing with RFK's death if it hadnt happened when he wrote it. Bobby was such a sad person in many ways, despite his hopefulness for mankind. That comes out in the writing, the sad figure that I am constantly inspired by. I am still trying to accept the Kennedy bros. deaths, despite being born around 20 years after Robert's death. Sorry to Barthleme for putting my own thoughts in his writing.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to point out that Jonathan Lethem wrote the intro and "Chronic City" was one of favorite books of last year and "Ecstasy of Influence" is also excellent. Highly recommend.
In Jonathan Lethem’s introduction, he says that Barthelme is “a demon of compression and surprise.” Anyone who reads these three stories knows that this is correct. The first thing that struck me is Barthelme’s form. I’m in Intro. Poetry this semester as well as fiction, and one thing I’ve been learning is how different forms can add to—and take away from—a piece. The form of “Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning” was fascinating, something I’m not sure I’ve ever come across in fiction. It is written in a collection of short scenes and descriptions, and it reminded me of those True Hollywood Story documentaries they show on TV. Snapshots of Kennedy’s life are combined with the commentary of other people in his life, like his secretaries and friends. This information given to us by this form is seemingly random (how he feels about crowds, what younger people think about him) but it helps us build an impression of the character. We are able to learn more about him by jumping around than we would if Barthelme had just written one scene, because there’s no way he could’ve squashed the same amount of information into a one scene story.
ReplyDeleteI’m a fan of slightly out-there plots that can be solidly grounded in reality, so the idea of a town completely made up of churches caught my attention immediately. The image of “both sides of the street…solidly lined with churches, standing shoulder to shoulder” was very striking, and it reminded me of a row of soldiers or a wall. Barthelme goes on to list many of the town’s churches, at least twenty throughout the story, and that helped me feel the same overwhelming feeling Cecelia feels. I finished the first list of churches and thought, there can’t possibly be more, and then I found the next list. But underneath all the churches, there’s a very real theme of dreams. “I’ll dream,” Cecelia warns Mr. Phillips. “Things you won’t like…I’ll dream the life you are most afraid of.” Baxter comments on Barthelme’s protagonists, saying they are the “not-joiners” who refuse to conform to the clichés and give up their own desires. The intriguing forms are what drew me to the stories, but the characters are what kept me there.
I’m a fan of Barthelme’s writing style. I like his use of surrealism in stories. He has a great way of taking a completely mundane story and twisting it into something out of the ordinary.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first started reading “Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning” it for some reason reminded me of Chronicles of a Death foretold. I think it’s probably the fact that it’s told from different points of view and displays the opinions of various people on the central character. I don’t know if Barthelme was ever influenced by Gabriel Garcia Mendez but it wouldn’t surprise me. They both share an affinity for the metaphysical. Though I wouldn’t quite categorize it as magic realism. Anyway, I’m going to try my hand at a creative response to “The School.”
I love my job. The kids are great. They truly are. They get so excited whenever we get a new pet. And a lot of them are free thinkers like Edgar.
I remember I was heading my own lesson one day before the puppy died. He hadn’t eaten any of his food that day, the puppy. For the most part he just sat in the corner and kept to himself.
I was practicing cursive with the kids. They asked me, “Miss Helen, will we ever need to use script later on in life?”
“Sure you will.” I replied. “You’ll need to know how to write your name in script so you can sign your signature on important documents.”
Then why don’t we just learn to write our own names?
Because it’s important that you know how to write the entire alphabet. In the old days people used to write only in script.
“But in our increasingly technological society, is it a sensible use of our time to teach us a form of handwriting when typing skills are much more applicable and desired?”
I glanced over at Edgar. I tried to do that as seldom as possible because when I did, I would often feel my face flush. But in this circumstance, he probably assumed that I was blushing more because I didn’t know how to respond to the kids rather than because making simple eye contact with him for too long is unnerving for me.
“Don’t worry kids,” Edgar said. “Tomorrow we’ll be practicing typing skills in the computer lab.”
I really liked "Robert Kennedy Saved from Drowning," and the format of that story is what I want to try for my creative response. I liked all of the stories, however I felt that Barthelme condensed a lot of actions and events into few pages. Neither of his three stories was very long, but each still seemed to work as a short story.
ReplyDeleteMODERN NINJA
Society's View of Him:
There is nor deliberate need for a ninja in this day and time. He acts like some kind of super-hero, but soon enough he'll die. HE is going up against guns with only a sword and a few throwing stars. It seems rather pointless for him to continue his vigilante lifestyle. It is a miracle he lives to this day.
Fan's view of him:
This Ninja guy is pretty badass. He runs around all day with a sword, slashing down bad people, like he's in some kind of video game. Speaking of which, he should have his own video game. He really sets a good example for the youth of this country, too. Why do we need so much violence with guns anyway? They are too cheap, but fighting with a sword is fair. Actually, it takes more skill to use a sword than it does to use a gun.
View of Himself:
I do what I do simply because I can. Everyone always complains about the problems of society. I merely take action. Following the ancient methods of the ninja, I hunt only those who are evil. People look up to me, but I don't do it for the fan, I do it because I feel it is the right thing to do. That, and I have always wanted to be a ninja.